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good evening, everyone. tonight keeping them honest with some serious questions now being levelled at congresswoman michele bachmann, questions she is so far refusing to answer. a second straight poll now puts michele bachmann out in front of mitt romney in iowa where the frontrunner status it's no surprising that journalists are focusing more on bachmann as a serious candidate with. that focus come new questions being raised about the clinic bachmann owns with her husband marcus. it's a self-described christian counselling clinic which offers marriage counselling and a host of services, one of which is known as reparative therapy. and it's based on the theory that gay people can be turned into heterosexuals through a combination of prayer and willpower.
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nearly all mainstream medical and psychological associations say there's no evidence that works. and there's plenty of evidence that it can be hurtful and harmful. this might not even be a story except mr. bachmann has denied the clinic he and his wife own practice reparative therapy. now congresswoman bachmann is refusing to answer questions about it. neither one is talking about it now. what's surprising is for years congresswoman bachmann and her husband have spoken extensively publicly about their views on sexual orientation which they clearly believe is not something that people are born with and which they believe can be treated. here's some of michele bachmann's comments in the past. >> this is an earthquake issue. this will change our state forever. because the immediate consequence if gay marriage goes through is that k-12 little children will be forced to learn that homosexuality is normal and natural and that perhaps they should try it. >> if you're involved in the gay and rez lesbian lifestyle it's bondage, personal despair and personal enslavement. this is not funny. it's a very sad life. it's part of satan, i think, to say that this is gay. it's anything but gay. it's profoundly sad to recognize that almost all --
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>> some of the audio recordings over the years. you can agree or disagree with bachmann's views on homosexual tichlt that's not the issue tonight. what's not the issue is when mr. bachmann denied using reparative therapy at his clinic as you'll hear him do shortly, it seems he wasn't telling the truth, jim acosta tonight keeping them honest. >> hi, everybody. >> reporter: in her campaign for president, michele bachmann touts her background as a small business owner. >> as a mom of five, a foster parent, and a former tax lawyer and now a small business job creator -- >> reporter: that business is bachmann and associates, a
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christian counselling service outside minneapolis run by her husband marcus. in recent years the clinic has faced accusations it encourages gay and liz lesbian patients to change their sexual orientation, a practice that is frowned upon by mental health experts. back in 2004, andrew ramirez at the urging of his mother turned to bachmann and associates to talk about his own homosexuality. the then 17-year-old says he was immediately skeptical of what one of the clinic's counselors told him. >> it was therapy that would help me change from being homosexual to straight. >> that's how he described it? >> yes. >> he basically said if you do this, what? you wouldn't be gay anymore? >> if i did this and worked his therapy program, god could perform a miracle and i could no longer be gay. >> reporter: ramirez says he was assigned a therapy program consisting of prayer and reading bible passages. he also says he was told he would be mentored by an ex-lesbian minister. if none of that worked, ramirez says, the counselor had another idea. >> he suggested to you what? >> not acting out on my same-sex
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attractions and living a life of celibacy. >> that was an alternative to being gay? >> right. >> reporter: after the second session, ramirez told his mother he wanted to stop. >> and i could just hear his voice quivering. i just said, you know, andy, if you're good with being gay then i am, too. >> reporter: the american psychological association is sharply critical of what's known in the mental health community as reparative therapy, saying in a recent report "there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation". but in a talk radio interview last year, marcus bachmann compared gay teenagers to barbarians who must be disciplined. >> what do you say when your teenager says she's gay? what do you say to christian parents who come up with this? well, i think you clearly say what is the understanding of
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god's word on homosexuality. and i think that this is no mystery that a child or pre-adolescent particularly adolescent will question and wonder -- certainly there's that curiosity. but again, we like -- it is as if we have to understand barbarians need to be educated. they need to be disciplined, and just because someone feels it or thinks it doesn't mean that we're supposed to go down that road. >> reporter: back in 2006, bachmann denied his practice engaged in reparative therapy, telling a minneapolis newspaper "that's a false statement" and went on to say "if someone is interested in talking to us about their homo sexuality we are open to talking about that. but if someone comes in a homosexual and they want to stay homosexual, i don't have a problem with that". >> what would you suggest to me like a treatment plan type of thing?
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>> definitely pray. >> reporter: this week a gay rights group truth wins out released a hidden camera video recorded by one of its activists who posed as a patient at bachmann and association. >> you can actually leave homosexuality completely and become heterosexual? >> oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. oh, i believe all about that. and it's happened before. it really has. >> reporter: in the full five sessions of footage, while the counselor at times suggests homosexuality can be treated at the clinic, he also concedes he's not an expert on the subject. michele bachmann has a long history of controversial views on homosexuality. she recently signed a pledge to defend marriage that compared same sex couples to polygamists. that's a comparison bachmann made as a state lawmaker in 2004 when she called for an amendment
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to block gay marriages in other states from being recognized in minnesota. >> if we allow this to happen, group marriage, polygamy and things much worse may not be far behind. >> reporter: both balk mens declined our request for interviews. her campaign released a statement to cnn that says "the bachmanns are in no position ethically, legally or morally to discuss specific courses of treatment concerning the clinic's patients". a local tv station in iowa tried to ask bachmann whether her family clinic engages in reparative therapy, she dodged the question. >> is it something that is conducted at that center? >> well, i'm running for the presidency of the united states. and i'm here today to talk about job creation and also the fact that we do have a business that deals with job creation. we're very proud of the business that we've created. >> so jim, how might these revelations and her refusal to answer them affect her campaign in places like iowa? it's very possible they'd have no effect especially among her conservative base.
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>> reporter: that's right, anderson. the polls show she has a serious shot of winning the iowa caucuses because social conservatives will be a decisive factor in that contest. and it's quite possible that the conservative base there will view this clinic not as a liability but as an asset. the marriage pledge that she signed from one conservative group out there basically believes what she believes and what this clinic believes. >> yeah. jim, appreciate the reporting. you saw a moment ago where the american psychological association this of this reparative therapy. we wanted to learn more about it so earlier i spoke with dr. drew pinsky host of hln "dr. drew". >> what does reparative therapy mean? what does it consist of? >> many times they're using models for other kinds of behaviors that people have difficulty controlling like addictions. so they're using things like 12-step models and those sorts of interventions. there's a lot of trauma therapist involved. some of these treatments are quite legitimate. what's problematic is this idea that being homosexual is somehow pathological and needs to be fix
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zbld you said these treatments were legitimate but there's not really any evidence that this kind of therapy works, right? >> that's right. the treatments are legitimate. i mean, for instance, when i've talked to the guys that have either been through these treatments or use them, they're talking about trauma treatments. they're talking about trauma therapies. i understand that. that's a legitimate thing to do if somebody's had trauma. but with the goal of changing somebody's sexual orientation now you've gone completely off the rail. the medical establishment is going to great lengths to sort of atone for having pathologized this for many years. it was not correct. is it is not a pathology. and there's no one in established medicine that believes that it is. >> so the american psychiatric association, the ama, none of them back this idea of reparative therapy, that you can pray enough and suddenly not be gay or go through other forms of reparative therapy and no longer be gay?
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>> that's absolutely true. and not only that, though, even again, the people that i've talked to that went through, this we dedicated an entire program to this one evening. and even the guys that have been through it are clear it's not like their sexual orientation has changed. they just can contain their behaviors a little differently. >> it was interesting one of the counselors, and i don't know if the person is an actual therapist or what their qualification is but i'll just say a counselor in that video was telling this person with the hidden camera, it's definitely worked. you can definitely change it. but in truth, as you said, you've interviewed a lot of people who have gone through this kind of treatment. i've interviewed people over the years who have gone through this treatment. and even the ones who claim that they are no longer gay, when you really push them they will admit that every day they still have the fantasies, they still have the thoughts, they just are forcing themselves not to act on what appears to be their natural inclination. >> that is precisely what i found. that is exactly what i found with those people. now, they will also then say
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that, well, okay, but are you saying that people shouldn't have a choice to do something if they want to change? that's sort of what they'll hide behind then. and the fact is, again, it's exactly what you're describing. it's living a life that is not consistent with their biology and who they are. and it's pathologizing something that's not a pathology. and i'm not saying that there shouldn't be choices for people. i'm saying that having those choices might have a very significantly negative impact on people and we need to take a look at that. >> because repressing yourself in that way, because living that kind of -- repressing your inner most thoughts, you're saying, is not healthy long term. >> i'm saying of course that would be a very difficult way to live. but i'm actually more concerned about the ambient culture coming down on people who otherwise would be able to live healthy, happy lives. those are the people that really get hurt in the fallout from something like this. it's somebody who is coming to terms with this who may be
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ambivalent who begins thinking because they seal billboards on the roadside that there's something wrong with them, aren't you adding to discrimination and misery for people -- >> to say that this is somehow a choice which there's no evidence of. >> well, you know, you're absolutely correct. the idea of a choice, it's a bizarre notion. i mean, think about it. for anybody who has feelings about this out there. it's like a choice to like chocolate ice cream or a choice to like certain kinds of -- be attracted in a certain way to certain kinds of people. that's something in us. it's a very deep biological piece of who we are as human beings. >> dr. drew pinsky, thanks. >> anderson, thank you. quick 360 keeping them honest followup. last night we told you about a marriage pledge signed by michele bachmann and rick santorum, republican presidential candidates that had some historically inaccurate and false statements about slavery.
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the fall slavery section was taken out. tonight we've learned that mitt romney has said he will not sign the pledge. he said "mitt romney strongly supports traditional marriage but he felt this contained references and divisions that were undignified and inappropriate for a presidential campaign". let us know what you think we're on facebook, follow me on twitter @ anderson cooper president obama's dire warnings about the social security checks that millions of people rely on. if government defaults don't count on the checks he's saying. is he just trying to scare seniors and others? details on that ahead. later syria where tension is rising after mobs attack the u.s. embassies, very latest what washington is doing about it. also hear from one of the casey anthony jurors about the reaction she's getting for voting not guilty. >> you come home and everyone's mad at you. and the media's outside hounding you and making it clear they're not leaving. and it's just very stressful. and you get anonymous letters from people that are hateful and nasty.
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raw politics now, late developments in the trillion dollar battle over the budget and one major bombshell today, president obama saying he cannot guarantee americans will get their social security checks on august 3rd unless an agreement is reached by august 2nd on
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cutting the deficit and raising the debt ceiling. in political terms with his showdown with house and senate republicans that's called bringing an h bomb to a gun fight or little league came and could be called scare mongering. we'll talk about it shortly and the budget negotiations. first the president's stunning answer. >> can you tell the folks at home that no matter what happens the social security checks are going to go out on august 3rd? there are about $20 billion worth of social security checks that to go out the day after. >> these are not just social security checks. these are veterans checks and folks on disability, their checks. there are about 70 million checks that go out each month. >> can you guarantee as president those checks will go out on august 3rd? >> i cannot guarantee those checks go out on august 3rd if we haven't resolved this issue. because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it. >> now, in fact, there are
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different estimates of when precise lit treasury would run out of cash and authority to sell more bonds to finance the government. but whichever day it is according to bipartisan policy center, the government will instantly be unable to finance the difference between the $200 billion in revenue for august and $360 billion in spending, sending out those social security plus medicare, defense contractors, interest on the debt accounts for 172 billion of the $200 billion. after paying all of that, the bipartisan center estimates the treasury would not be able to pay the troops, finance the v.a., send out college loans, fund highway construction or pay tax refunds. and the choices make it tougher as time goes on. president obama says he will not accept a short-term deal. senate minority leader mitch mcconnel today offered a complicated series of short-term deals. democratic snot dick durbin said he'd consider mcconnel's offer but republicans slammed mcconnel and for making it.
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house speaker boehner laid the problem squarely at president obama's doorstep. >> this debt limit increase is his problem and he needs to put his plan on the table, something that congress can pass. >> speaker boehner says he cannot sell a plan with tax increases to his members. president obama today said he thinks he can sell democrats on entitlement cuts but liberal democrats are putting up sharp resistance and conservatives are accusing them and others of scaring seniors on social security. joining us gloria borger and david gergen both weighing in on cnn cnn.com. what do you make of the president's statements today? was that scare mongering or does he have a valid snoint. >> it's both. of course he's trying to scare people. but it's also true that you could put social security first and pay it. but clearly, anderson, when a government as we are is borrowing 40 cents on the dollar, you're only got 60 cents left out of each dollar to figure out what you're going to pay for. that other 40 cents is not going
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to get paid. so theoretically, yes, social security may not -- checks may not go out. would the government actually do that? i think the social security would go out first then along with veterans checks. >> gloria, you're referring to this as a defining moment or definitional moment for the republican party. how so? >> well, i think at a certain point the parties have to decide how they're going to govern and what they're about. and i think it's always in my memory been that republican party is the party of smaller government and fiscal responsibility. but now we see a new strain in the republican party in which the sort of obsession, no taxes, no new taxes, seems to trump everything else. you had a deal, a potential deal between the president of the united states and the house speaker in which the president was offering $3 of spending cuts for every dollar of tax increases. i believe even ronald reagan probably would have taken that deal. but there are all these republicans, 230 of them in the house, who have taken a no tax pledge. and couldn't even sign onto that. i think they've made a choice. the choice is, taxes are more
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important than deficit reduction. >> it's interesting, david, democrats are drawing the line, some democrats are drawing the line on some entitlement programs like social security, medicare. isn't that as much of a hurdle for the president as the republican hard line on taxes? >> i don't think it is. the president has -- believes very strongly, and i have this on excellent authority today -- he believes very strongly he can bring along harry reid and nancy pelosi kicking and screaming to be sure to sign onto some entitlement reforms. and while he's having a recal sit rant republican party. i happen to favor the simpson bowles plan which was $2 of spending cuts for $1 of tax increases. i think that's the right way to go. but i think it's unfair to republicans to say that they're simply -- they're so ideological. they feel that in the last few years, government has become bloated.
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it's grown from about 19% of the gdp to almost 25% of gdp. and they feel that the democrats have the ideological commitment to big government. what they would like to see is the government sweated down. that's the point they've been trying to make. and there are honest differences and people have a very different view of what kind of society we ought to live in. >> but at a certain point, david, when there was a big deal on the table, and if as you say the president could have brought nancy pelosi along, and i agree with you i think he could have, the republicans would have gotten a great deficit reduction deal if they hadn't committed to the no tax pledge, right? >> but gloria, asking any party to commit to a $1 trillion of tax increases is an awful big lift for a party that is all along stood for lower taxes. and when they also feel a lot of these cuts are going to turn out to be illusory. their experience in the past they sign onto the bargains and they feel the democrats
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eventually wind up getting what they wanted and what they were promised never materializes. >> but there's a big difference between that and nothing. you know? a big difference. [ overlapping speakers ] >> where do you see the middle ground? where does the compromise occur? >> i have felt for some time, aernz aernds, they're not going to get the megadeal or a moderate-sized deal either. if they get a moderate-size deal that would carry us through until february 2013. we wouldn't have to revisit this issue of the debt ceiling. but they're so far sort of that -- interim solution that president clearly does not want. and there is fear in the white house that if we do a short-term solution yes, it would get past the default problem but the credit rating agencies like standard & poors could downgrade the credit of the united states. >> and then you have the problem that this continues to come up over and over and over again.
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and of course it's not going to get any easier to continue this debate the closer you get to an election. and the white house would like to have it done with. >> gloria borger, david gergen, appreciate it. difficult times. still ahead. crime and punishment what the lead detectives said in the casey anthony investigation said today about the young mother's acquittal. gary tuck man talked to one of the jurors about the deep divide that could have put anthony in prison for years. >> we're told the original vote for the aggravated manslaughter was 6-6. >> correct. >> which side of the six were you on? >> the manslaughter. >> also ahead, attacks on the american and french embassies in syria add new fuel to the tensions between syria and the u.s. and the west. tonight strong words in president obama, secretary clinton and the u.n. security council. where is the crisis heading call her.
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tensions between syria and much of the west escalated today. the united nations security council condemned attacks on the u.s. and french embassies in damascus. in the photograph you can see two men scaling the american embassy's walls yesterday. u.s. officials said it was the third attack in four days with hundreds of demonstrators descending on the building. mobs loyal to president assad have been swarming outside the u.s. and french embassies to condemn visits by the american ambassadors to hama, an opposition stronghold. want to point out this is amateur video. cnn cannot confirm its authenticity.
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it shows a police vehicle parked neither the embassy. the writing "anti-riot battalion". you can also see graffiti painted on the embassy's walls including the message that people want to kick out the dog, apparent reference to the u.s. ambassador. someone has written "this is syria, you dog "and "to hell with america" up today the syrian ambassador to the united states accused the embassies to exaggerating the attacks. secretary of state hillary clinton blasted syria in her strongest language yet. here's what president obama told cbs news tonight. >> we've certainly sent a clear message that nobody can be messing with our embassy, and that we will take whatever action is necessary in order to protect our embassy. >> i talked to foreign affairs correspondent jill dougherty er. >> jill we heard the strongest messages yet regarding the assad regime. >> reporter: hillary clinton crossed the line, you could say,
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at least using that word that he has lost his legitimacy. that's the sfraz they have used about gadhafi in libya. for the first time secretary clinton used that phrase. she said that president assad is not indispensable. that's a change. that's really upping it. they're not saying he should step down. they haven't got than far. and anderson, one thing that they probably won't do is say precisely that until the people of syria decide that that indeed is what they want to do. >> the syrian government responded to the u.s. statements with some pretty strong rhetoric of their own. >> reporter: they did. they're talking about incitement. they were very angry about the comments by secretary clinton, firing back. they also said that that incident at the embassy on monday was really incitement by the united states and the visit by the ambassador ford was incitement as well. they're kicking it back to the americans.
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>> is it clear what role the syrian government played in yesterday's attack? this is an incredibly repressive regime. it's hard to believe that u.s. embassy could be attacked without some sort of encouragement or tacit approval of the government there. >> reporter: absolutely. now. publicly what they're saying is whether they condoned it, incited it or just simply allowed it to happen -- because remember the security guards really standing back and letting the chaos ensue. >> right. this is the tactic of we've seen with mubarek of getting people out to attack reporters in that case. but now it's just the reporters aren't there so they're attacking the u.s. embassy. >> reporter: but behind the scenes, officials are telling us they do say that it appears that government actually did somehow orchestrate. this and they point out that there were broadcasts on a television station that is under the influence of president assad that did anger people and incite them to do something. >> yeah. it's a familiar move we've seen
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in the recent past. the u.n. security council condemned the attacks today. russia and china signing onto the rebuke. that seems pretty significant. >> reporter: significant, yeah, i think in that sense it's significant. but i think you have to look at the fine print. because are they actually endorsing what the united states is saying about president assad? perhaps not. what they appear to be endorsing is this narrow principle that practically any country would approve which is there is a vienna convention that says that the host country has to protect diplomats and their property. and so if they're endorsing that, then it's kind of a no-brainer. it doesn't necessarily mean that they support let's say u.s. policy. >> right. interesting. jill dougherty, thanks. let's check in with isha sesay following some stories in a 360 news bulletin. >> reporter: anderson, former first lady betty ford was remembered today for her courage and grace. former president george w. bush and former first ladies,
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rosalind carter, hillary clinton and nancy reagan attended the service in palm business ert, california. as did current first lady michelle obama. she'll be buried in grand rapids, michigan after a private service. she died last week at 93. producer sherwood schwartz, creator of the brady bunch and gilligan's island died this morning. he was 94. utah's anti-bigamy laws are about to be challenged in court by the stars of the reality show "sister wives". cody brown and his four wives plan to file a lawsuit tomorrow. they say they're fighting for the rights of plural families. anderson, listen up. a pennsylvania restaurant is serving up a new rule. no kids allowed. that's right. starting next weekend, children under the age of six will no longer be welcomed at mcdane's restaurant in monroeville. the owner says babies and small takes are too noisy and you can't control their volume. he says he's confident most customers will be thrilled with the changing policy.
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>> not parents. >> well, yeah. >> desperate for a night out. >> he's like, keep them at home. they may be the center of your universe but they're not the center of the world. >> all right. you can address your hate mail to isha. time now for the shot. this one comes from our 360 extended family also known as staffers' bets. bae and scout live with producer kirk mcdonald. they have a morning ritual, bea and scout. take a look. >> they're cute. >> like most cats, bea likes to wash and not just herself. not sure if scout is enjoying any of this. he sort of seems resigned. she has kind of a vice-like grip on little scout right there. that's adorable. >> i think it's very adorable. very cute. >> isn't it great that cats and dogs can get along? >> can coexist. but i'll see your cat and dog duet or whatever you want to call that little thing and raise you a solo act. it's an oldie but it is a goody. the amazing singing dog.
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we found it on youtube. [ dog howling ] >> wow! >> i know. it's going for it. kind of like the scene at mcdane's, i imagine, if there were kids allowed. >> i haven't seen that one. that's cool. isha, serious stuff. up next, casey anthony investigators weigh ned lamont verdict and so does a juror talking to gary tuchman. >> do you believe she could have been molested? was there evidence? >> there was no evidence. none at all. >> also tonight, why there could be a catch to the catch by the fan who caught derek jeter's 3,000th career hit. he did the unselfish thing, he gave jeter the ball. didn't try to auction it off for big bucks. but maybe he might be wishing he kept it instead coming up. . crime and punishment tonight,
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crime and punishment tonight, the investigators who built the murder case against casey anthony speak out for the first time since she was acquitted of the charge last week. at a news conference today in orlando, investigators maintained they had a solid case against casey, and while they're unhappy with the jury's decision they called on the public to respect it. a key point in the discussion today, the defense claimed that caylee died in an accidental drowning in the family's swimming pool. a lead investigator said when they questioned casey about her daughter's death she never said anything about that. >> she never said it was an accident. that would have been her opportunity to say so had it
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been. and obviously we give them -- we give them the ability to explain their actions, but they always can come up and say, well, this is what happened. even to this day i'm still surprised that she didn't. >> as for casey's safety when she's released from jail on sunday, they say there haven't been any credible death threats against her and they will not offer her any special protection. they announced they will not charge cindy anthony with perjury after she claimed responsibility for searches for chloroform on the family computer. prosecutors proved she was at work at the time the searches were made. chloroform is a key part of the state's case. prosecutors claim casey used it to kill caylee and covered her mouth and nose in duct tape. the jury didn't buy it. today gary tuchman spoke with one of the jurors who said her life has dramatically changed.
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>> reporter: anderson, jennifer ford was sequestered with her fellow jurors for a month and a half. ever since she's been home her life is very difficult and harrowing. she's 32 years old, a nursing student, a nice person performing her civic duty. she is strongly suspicious of casey anthony's behavior and she thinks her attorneys downright lied during opening statements. but she and her fellow jurors did not feel there was sufficient proof beyond a reasonable doubt that she was responsible for the death of caylee anthony. ever since that verdict she's received hate mail and death threats. she just can't believe what's happened since she was summon today jury duty. >> now that you look back at it, do you wish you did not serve on this jury? >> i would have been okay if i wasn't a part of it. i would have been okay with that. >> and why do you say that? >> just because for six weeks we had minimal freedoms, and then the welcoming committee -- i'm
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being sarcastic -- you come home and everyone's mad at you and the media's outside hounding you and making it clear they're not leaving. and it's just very stressful. and you get anonymous letters from people that are hateful and nasty. >> what have people said in these letters? >> honestly, i read probably the first sentence. and if it starts with "shame on you "in all capital letters i rip it up and throw it away because i know it's going to be i've seen things on facebook probably from the same person. you're ignorant. you should be ashamed of yourself. you let a murderer go free. et cetera, et cetera. things like that. i don't want to read it. >> are you scared, jennifer? >> not really. i'm kind of a scrappy girl. so i'm not going to back away from anything and run scared and crying. that's for sure. >> but have there been times where you have felt a little bit like crying? >> i've been stressed out. yeah. i mean, i have cried. but --
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>> how does it make you feel? you were doing your civic duty? how does it make you feel you would get anonymous, hate-filled letters from people threatening your welfare? >> it makes me feel like -- i don't know. i feel like people are missing something. i don't know. to me i would think that it would be a good thing to know that people are trying to do what they're supposed to do and uphold the letter of the law and not be emotional. but apparently that's not something that is rewarded by the public sometimes? i mean, a lot of people have been supportive. and even if they didn't aagree with our verdict they're still respectful. i think it might be a small population who's loud and angry and unkind. and i guess it comes with the territory. >> but it's very upsetting. >> it's very upsetting. >> you told me, though, that original vote for the aggravated manslaughter was 6-6. >> correct. >> and which side of the six were you on? >> the manslaughter. >> so originally you thought that she was guilty of manslaughter or could be guilty of manslaughter.
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>> could be. and i wanted to investigate it further to see if it fit based on the evidence we were given. >> what convinced you and the five others to switch your votes and vote for not guilty. >> i think everyone will say the same thing, lack of hard evidence. like i said, the duct tape and chloroform and things like that, if you took a good hard look at it you could kind of -- there was a lot of doubt surrounding all of those certain things. so there's not enough to make anything stick. >> so you don't necessarily think she's innocent but you feel you didn't have enough proof to find her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. >> right. i don't know either way. obviously it's not been proven that she's innocent but it certainly hasn't been proven that she's guilty. >> the defense in their opening statements said that casey anthony's father molested her repeatedly when she was young and that's the reason why she kept the drowning of her child secret. do you believe that she could have been molested? was there evidence that she could have been molested by her father? >> there was no evidence. none at all. and that had no bearing on any
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verdict that was made. i mean, that was irrelevant. it was thrown out there but never substantiated. >> didn't that bother you that it wasn't substantiate later in the trial? the judge said you cannot bring this up in your closing arguments, defense, because you didn't bring up any issues about it. >> it's a disturbing image to have in your mouth. he paint add very graphic and disgusting picture. if you're going to do that at least back it up. if you can't back it up don't put that picture in people's minds. >> and regarding the drowning, the only evidence that was presented were pictures of caylee climbing in the pool with her grandmother, standing near a screen door which -- a door which her grandmother testified she couldn't open. it's pretty flimsy evidence at best. i'm wondering if you think that there was a possibility that she could have drowned. was there any evidence that convinced you of that? >> there's no evidence that convinced me of that, no. >> so you don't think she drowned, you don't think she was molested. so a casual viewer of the trial might say why didn't you find she was guilty of mourd? >> it has nothing to do with what the defense presents.
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it's on the prosecution to prove -- they brought charges. they have to prove with their evidence that those charges are -- they can validate bringing those charges and that crime was committed. >> so you didn't believe the central points of what the defense told you but you just felt that the prosecution didn't have enough evidence to convict? >> like i said, they had good strong circumstantial evidence. but at the end of the day it was circumstantial and there was not one strong piece of evidence that said something definitively. there were many different ways you could have gone with each piece of evidence. >> gary, is she worried that this interview is going to cause more unpleasant letters and attention to come her way? >> reporter: she's very concerned about that, anderson. i didn't think she would talk to me. but i explained to her we
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certainly wanted to find out what happened in the jury room. but we also wanted to paint the human portrait of what she and these other jurors are going through. what i told her was, our viewers are watching this. and they feel both ways about the verdict. i would guess most people feel it was not a good verdict. but i also feel that most of our viewers do not want to attack the jurors for reaching this verdict. because if we attack our jurors who's going to want to serve on a jury in the future? >> clearly she made a difficult decision. and the more you hear from them you realize what they went through and how difficult a decision it was even if people aren't happy with the decision. >> reporter: she is in pain, anderson. she's in a lot of pain. >> gave, appreciate the reporting. thanks. still ahead, it almost came again. a baseball fan trying to catch a ball nearly took another 20-foot plunge from the stands. we'll show you the amazing save of the people around him grabbing his legs. we'll show you the photo. also ahead, a ridiculist first. i'm adding myself to the ridiculist. i know, i almost felt too ashamed to tell you because it does involve snooki. i'll beach. ♪ [ male announcer ] every day thousands of people are switching from tylenol to advil.
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unlike fish oil, megared softgels are small and easy to swallow with no fishy smell or aftertaste. try megared today. coming up see why i put myself on the ridiculist and why it has something to do with snooki. first isha sesay with a 360 bulletin. >> reporter: rodney king is back in trouble. police in southern california pulled him over and busted him today on suspicion of driving under the influence. you may recall it was during a traffic stop in 1991 that king received a brutal beating that sparked the l.a. riots a year later. british filmmakers say rupert murdoch his son james and rebekah brooks for questioning a week from today. they're investigating allegations some of the newspaper's staff hacked into the voice mails of politicians, celebrities and terror victims. president obama awarded the medal of honor today to an army ranger who lost his right hand while tossing an enemy grenade
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away from fellow soldiers in afghanistan. sergeant first class leroy arthur petry is the second living recipient of the award for actions in iraq and afghanistan. another fan is lucky to be alive after he almost fell 20 feet head first while trying to catch a ball from the all-star home run derby. keith carmichael's brother, friends and some fans grabbed his legs and likely saved his life. last night's interdent comes just days after a texas ranger's fan plunged to his death while trying to grab a ball. and a new york fan who caught derek jeter's 3,000th career hit and gave it back instead of trying to cash in could still be slapped with a big tax bill. as much as $14,000, according to some reports. that's because yankee brass gave christian lopez free luxury suite tickets to every remaining home game, and a lot of yankee autograph swag. if that's taxable income, then he's have to pay up. if it's considered a gift, then
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he'll be safe from the irs. >> why wouldn't it be a gift? >> i don't know. they have to figure this out. what i will say as a non-baseball fan, if you see the ball coming, duck. just duck. >> yeah. it's unfortunate it happened again, somebody reaching over. thank goodness people were able to grab his legs time for the ridiculist, isha. i think we're making ridiculist history here. it's time for a look in the mirror as i put myself on the ridiculist. not for me behavior -- really odd photo. not for my behavior today in the -- thank you for showing it again. not for my behavior in the cnn cafeteria. wolf, i did not cut in line no matter what nancy grace tells you. i'm talking about me being wrong about the literary talents of a young woman named snooki. totally tanned opposed to wearing underwear while doing cartwheels snooki of jersey shore fame. we're told she signed a second book deal with her publisher simon and schuster. her new book is a followup to her debut novel "a shore thing".
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get it? she spelled it shore but it's really about sex. in fact, it's a book "a shore thing" is a book about friends who set out to have, and i quote, the sexiest summer ever. the new book is titled "gorilla beach". it doesn't refer to jane goodall's summer home. i've made fun of snooki's writing before. but now she has another book coming i think it's time to reassess. i admit i've been busy. at cnn it's not like we've had time to go and cover snooki's book signings or anything. >> that's not my camera. >> this is cnn. say hi to cnn. >> hi, cnn. thanks for coming. >> okay. we covered a book signing. my bad. it's hard to tell which is my favorite chapter in her first book "a shore thing". there's "karma is a bitch bitch". or perhaps "vin diesel is hotter than jesus". so what led snooki from the
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jacuzzi of shame? talent, raw, tan talent. i give you page nine of "a shore thing". tonight she aimed her gyrating hips straight at salami boy. the guy could take a hint. two second he creeped over to her. five seconds they were grinding. her butt pressed against his thighs. you got a nice rack, screamed rocky. so who said tuesday nights on basic cable couldn't be sexy, right? if "gorilla beach" is half as good as this, i have two words for you. best seller. that's one word, bestseller. i read on. "tonight she'd pull out all the stops. she started with makeup, including her trick of using a dark stroke of blush on her cleavage to make her bobbies look even bigger". see, snooki is not some poor man's jackie collins. she's a writer. and she toils at her craft. i read on. "gia danced around a little, shaking her peaches show".
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she shook it too hard. in the middle of a shmy an fart snuck out. you are not watching masterpiece theater. as for you dear, dear misunderstood snooki, congratulations on your new book deal. i was wrong about you. you are a modern day jane austen or -- in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say.
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♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] more people are leaving bmw, mercedes, and lexus for audi than ever before. ♪ experience the summer of audi event and get over 130 channels of siriusxm satellite radio for three months at no charge. with aveeno nourish plus moisturize. active naturals wheat formulas target and help repair damage in just 3 washes. for softer, stronger... ... hair with life. [ female announcer ] nourish plus. only from aveeno. with two children and no way to support them. people told me i wasn't going to do anything. and i just decided i have more to offer than that. i put myself through nursing school, and then i decided to go get a doctorate degree. university of phoenix gave me the knowledge
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to make a difference in people's lives. my name is dr. kimberly horton. i manage a network of over a thousand nurses, and i am a phoenix. [ male announcer ] find your program at phoenix.edu.
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>> all right. time for our beat 360 winners, a chance to show up our staffers by coming up with a better caption for the photo we put on our blog every day.

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Anderson Cooper 360
CNN July 12, 2011 11:00pm-12:00am PDT

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